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« Classic Conway & Korman | Main | Thou Shalt Not Haveth Both Vagina And Vestments »

Friday, May 30, 2008

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Oh here we go!

Ok, first, because it's quicker - ginny - He was hitting on Eric, as in, wanting to take him home, there was nothing friendly about it - believe me, I spent about 6 years trying to keep Eric out of trouble because he's hopelessly naive and I learned far more than I ever wanted to know about the 'mating' habits of gay men!!

And I dearly hope 'the same' IS said of me - if they can't figure it out with gaydar and my appearance, I have gay pride tattoos that surely ought to clue them in!

Secondly...and here comes the fun part...

Gayla, you said in your post,

"This is something that is happening too often in the world today - just because someone "IS" different, or believes something different from you, no one has the right to make sweeping remarks that cast negative light on their reputation."

Who the $£%^& said that being gay was negative? Now you've set ME off because never once in all of that discussion did Lori or ANYONE ELSE try to imply in the slightest way that someone's sexuality had ANY impact, positive or negative, on their opinions!

I think what we're seeing here is your own latent homophobia, because you're the ONLY ONE who clearly sees it as casting a negative light!! And let me tell you what, I've dealt with enough goddamn homophobia in my life I don't need it from you! My best friend in high school was almost KILLED because of religious-driven homophobia!!!

The point you're missing is that no one here who has said they believe (or know) Clay to be gay is in any way prejudiced against him for that. YOU might be, but the way I figure it that's YOUR effing problem as long as you don't take it out on us. Unfortunately, that seems to be what you're doing.

I'm really not interested in your religion because frankly I think all three of your aforementioned monotheistic religions are just as bad as the others when it comes to exactly what Lori was talking about - spreading hate and fear instead of understanding and compassion. I have studied them all, and I am aware that hate and fear are not what they profess to teach, but it seems to inevitably be what comes from them.

I don't have any issues with Clay -- I think he is an extraordinarily talented singer, and I certainly couldn't care less about his sexual orientation. Jaymes, on the other hand...well, she is 50 years old...My father was 50 when I was born. I spent my entire life having other kids ask me if he was my grandfather (really, it's not easy when you're a little kid). More importantly, he was gone by the time I was 21. Had that been reversed, and I lost my mother at that age, I don't know what I would have done. And I'm an "only" to boot. I hope Jaymes and Clay thought out these kinds of scenarios before making a final decision. Don't get me wrong -- I have NO DOUBT that this child will be loved and cared for. I just hope he or she has his/her mother for a very long time.

sorry for all the mistakes...i didnt reread what i typed...bad gin.

i was outted to my family by the first woman i was awith...when i lfet her...she was pissed so when my family called the house and she proclaimed i no longer lived there...i did but i couldnt be with her any more...she was extremely abusive...she told my sister about the two of us...what a mess...i had not planned on telling them untill my father was gone...and thank GOd hes still with us at the age of 85 now...but i wouldnt have told them...they had no idea...my father went thru so much pain over it all...blaming himself for teaching me "boy" things...how to fix stuff...well to me that is what any good strong woman should know...he told me i was an abomination...and i needed to "live like a nun"...so 18 years later he has come to regret the things he said...i forgave him so long ago...i have not forgiven the woman who outted me tho...it was mine to do...not hers...but she was angry i left...the rest of the family has forsaken me...i didnt need them anyways...i dont do mean people...i dont think family has to be something you are born into...i have family...good loving friends who know i am giving and honest and kind and loving, and yes daddy i still know how to change the oil in my car...and now i do live like a nun...i havent been on even so much as a date in 6 years...but im happy...and i believe with all that is in me that no one has a right to devulge information about someones sexuality...no one...nor can we guess at it...dont believe it untill you see it for yourself...and then believe only 50% of that...i went to gay bars with my gay male friends a long time before i realized i was a lesbian...and i too would take time to talk to other women there...to make a friendship...so if clay was in a gay bar "hitting up" someone for 2 hours...maybe he too wanted a friend...and enjoyed the music...god i love gay bar music...so all in all...were all right and were all wrong...its perception...not actuallity...dont make that mistake...you know it could be said at some point of you too...just be the best human being you can be...live and let live...smile...g.

OMG, Mom of 5, I have boob-dar too!!!!!!! I didn't know anyone else had that!! That's just too funny.

Speaking of inner radars, my sis-in-law has a boob-dar: she seems to know without asking, touching, or feeling, if another woman has had implants, no matter the size. I have to admit I'm pretty clueless on the gaydar (unless they're flaming) and boobdar scene (unless they're glaring). Sadly, a person has to lose over 50 pounds for me to notice -- duh! Hopefully, though, I notice other things, like whether they've had a bad day and could use a friendly smile. I'm sure I've missed plenty of those, too.

You know I'm glad Clay is able to be a parent. I really don't care about his sexuality as such because I understand his point of view concerning privacy. Really I do. But with the discussion heating up here, part of me is like 'say something already!'

The arguments concerning his sexuality are a bit annoying. I personally think he IS gay. And for those who do not know what gaydar is? Best way to describe it is a 'knowing' when you see or meet someone that they 'are' as we used to call it in the military 'family'. I'm real good at calling it on guys and believe me, I called alot of men in the past who others would say no way, but I ended up being right.

I wish him well as a future parent. Hell I wish HER well. The media is giving her age as 50! That's going to be a highrisk pregnancy all the way through! I hope their child comes out healthy and all that good stuff. He's not my taste musically, but I wish him and Ms Foster well.

Galyla - "Slinging shit"? Only the very first part of that post was addressed to you. The rest of it was my feelings about the entire situation and had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with you. It wasn't even a response to you or any of your posts. It was just a general observation. I haven't, at any time, slung any "shit" at you. If you assumed so, then you assumed incorrectly.

Lori, You were the first to sling s*it in this match when you made these statements to me after I asked my very rhetorical question...

This is what you wrote - scroll back and read it for yourself:

"The most ultra-right-wing conservative branches of all organized religions are composed mainly of masses of brainless, spineless twits who don't know any better but to gobble down the garbage they're fed by the religious hierarchy. And what they're been fed, mostly, is hate and fear. Hatred for people different from themselves and fear of things they don't (or WON'T) understand."

I do not believe that religion is comprised of fear & hate. I do not hate anyone. Just because you have a negative opinion of religion, calling everyone that has a conservative faith is just as bad as what you insinuated that I did - because you wrote it in general does not negate the fact that you basically called me brainless, spineless and a twit.

Regarding Clay's sexuality, you did say that:
"My gay-dar was certainly pinging off the charts the first time I ever saw Clay Aiken - and it's been pinging even louder for the last two years."

I have gone back and read all the comments -My original message was not to anyone specific, but was more to make a point that until someone says he is gay, we shouldn't call him gay.

This is something that is happening too often in the world today - just because someone "IS" different, or believes something different from you, no one has the right to make sweeping remarks that cast negative light on their reputation. I know first hand how this can destroy - as indicated in an earlier post, I am a proud Muslim. I am a 5th generation American. I am not some foreigner that has immigrated to the US. I am an American - through and through. And yet, because of people's hate and fear of the unknown - I am also judged by people that have no right to say s*it about who I am, what I believe. But, because I wear a scarf and practice Islam, I am automatically considered a terrorist. This is no different than people "assuming" that Clay is gay. Prejudice is prejudice and it is destructive. Until we can keep our own grass green in our own yard, don't point out the weeds in your neighbor's lawn!

Anyway, enough is enough...whatever happens, Clay will be a good father and I "PRAY" for him and his new child that the world they live in will not darken their relationship.

Gayla - You might want to go back and re-read all of the comments. *I* was not the person who announced with certainty that Clay was, without question, gay. Someone else said that. You responded to that person, and I replied with my own personal "feelings" about the issue, based on my own personal experience. You had no reason at all to come down on me the way you did.

As I've said all along, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. So please lay off the personal attacks, OK?

No. my beef is that no one has a right to indicate that someone else is gay if the person in question has made no public statement to that fact. Just because someone sets off another person's "gay-dar", whatever a gay-dar is, does not indicate to any certainty that the person is gay. If Clay was hitting on someone you know in Raleigh, then so be it. I cannot acknowledge or refute your word and I wouldn't try. However, I have respect for Mr. Aiken if he chooses to remain celibate rather than make a public statement about his "perceived" sexuality. As I said, my beef with Lori was her every accurate Gay-dar when she obviously had never met the man before. There are many people, simply by their attire, their mannerisms, etc, that some would swear were gay, but in actuality that is not the case at all. And, I stand by my own opinion that until announced publically by the person in question, I will not concede that they are gay!

Wow. Someone actually thinks you can't be religious AND Gay.

{{{{{Hugging Carrie}}}}}

Girl, you absolutely rock my socks off.

Actually, Lori's right. Clay is from Raleigh, and I lived not too far from there most of my life. Close enough that we went up there to go to the clubs. There is a club called Legends there, a GAY bar, and Clay spent an entire Saturday night hitting on my best friend Eric in Legends. This was about a year and a half before I saw his first AI audition.

So there's no doubt he's gay. That doesn't mean he can't be Christian. I can't reconcile the two in my own mind, so I chose a different religious path - but my stepsister is very gay and very Christian. It works for her, I don't question it, and she offers me the same courtesy.

My issue is not that Clay is gay, my issue is that he doesn't have the balls to say so. Staying in the closet helps no one and harms us all.

Sonia, yours is one of the remarkable exceptions I was talking about. I really do admire you, having and loving a child, giving it a better home and circumstances than she likely would've otherwise had.

I also believe that one can be gay regardless of religious status. Being gay is often associated with being promiscuous, and if Clay says he is celibate, we have to take him at his word. That'd be one tough situation. Geesh.

You know what, Gayla? There was absolutely no reason whatsoever for your nastiness, rudeness or sarcasm. You questioned in an earlier post about why people assumed, or thought, he is gay. I answered for myself, based on 43 years of experience with members of the gay community and having a (first closeted and then openly) gay family member.

It's obvious that you have a major twist in your knickers over the entire issue. That's fine. But please do try to keep from spewing your personal arsenal of nastiness all over me until it's deserved, alrighty?

As far as young Mr. Aiken is concerned... I couldn't care less if he's gay, straight, or a purple cross-eyed bisexual wildebeest from Jupiter. I love the guy's voice, I think he's a good-hearted person, and that's all that matters. I don't give two happy shits in a windstorm who (or what) he sleeps with.

Lori, Thank you for taking it upon yourself to publically proclaim that Clay Aiken is gay because it is what yor Gay-dar has indicated - it is the absolute truth and nothing else can be said. Probably having never met the man, or sat down and discussed a single subject with him, I am so amazed that your clairvoyance has determined that this man, who has even publically chosen Not to discuss his sexuality, is indeed gay. Well with your ability to predict what others are simply because you had a gay brother, you should become a psychic with law enforcement. I predict that the day Clay denies or confirms his sexual preference, the earth will not skip a beat on its axis, the day will still be 24 hours and the world will not come to an end!

DGMS on the FL adoption laws!! We are the *only* state where it is illegal for gays to adopt--single, coupled, PERIOD. I have wanted to be a mom for as long as I can remember. We tried the AI route, but from a medical standpoint, my only chance was IVF--to the tune of $20k that we weren't able to spend on a 30% chance of success. Unfortunately, we're "stuck" in FL, so are unable to adopt, even overseas, as they do "home studies," and if we aren't truthful in our disclosures (yes, the courts flat-out ask if you're gay), and the truth comes out down the line, the adoption can be invalidated.

Ah, Florida. The state that granted custody to a CONVICTED MURDERER upon his release from prison so the child wouldn't have to be raised by her lesbian mother. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur61.htm
And the state that will not permit the wonderful Lofton-Croteau family to adopt the HIV+ boys they've fostered since they were infants. http://www.hrc.org/issues/2376.htm

Gayla - I grew up with a gay brother. My own personal "gay-dar" is pretty highly developed because of a lifetime of exposure. My gay-dar was certainly pinging off the charts the first time I ever saw Clay Aiken - and it's been pinging even louder for the last two years.

The point is that IT DOESN'T MATTER. People are who they are - black, white, brown-eyed, blue-eyed, short, tall, pigeon-toed, gay or straight. It's how you're BORN and until everyone gets that figured out, there will be jackasses who go out of their way to make life miserable for people who aren't "like them."

Organized, politicized religions (in any form) don't help the process, either. They only make it worse and keep people STUPID. Because if people woke up and learned something, the organized religions of the world would find themselves no longer needed - or more importantly - wanted.

The most ultra-right-wing conservative branches of all organized religions are composed mainly of masses of brainless, spineless twits who don't know any better but to gobble down the garbage they're fed by the religious hierarchy. And what they're been fed, mostly, is hate and fear. Hatred for people different from themselves and fear of things they don't (or WON'T) understand.

DGMS, I'll be here all day.

Florida, in it's enlightened, anything-goes and everyone-can-stay environment, is one of the few states that does not allow adoption by gays which totally amazes me.

While I agree that the optimal environment for a child would probably be one that is the easiest/traditional one by social convention - a married mom and dad - this doesn't mean it's the only right one. I can't believe that people would rather leave kids in orphanages, or worse, with biological families that are abusive or incompetent, rather than let them be with a gay couple. They let convicts, criminals, drug abusers, prostitutes, physical abusers, sexual abusers, mentally incompetent, low IQ (don't mean that in a bad way - just the literal way), etc., have as many kids as they want, and no one seems to be too worried about what kind of examples these people are able to set, or what their kids are exposed to.

But say the word "gay" and suddenly the child's welfare is endangered. I bet if you check the backgrounds of most of the world's criminals, 99.5% of them had were from "straight-parent" homes, and a good number of them were even from dual-parent homes, but that didn't stop them from becoming what they became. And if you did a study of all children that turned out to have a biological parent that was gay, there is probably not more than an normal statistical sample of the kids that are gay.

Plus, they're not keeping children "out of the hands" of gay parents anyhow- if they can have a biological child, they can keep them. No wonder Clay and James decided to go this route.

Sonia - Your not the only "Older Mom" - I had my one & only child at 37 - I will be 42 when she starts Kindergarten this fall. My hubby has a 27 yr old from his first marriage - he will be 49 this year. He has more salt than pepper in his hair & our daughter gets mistaken for his "Granddaughter" ALOT! He just smiles. He says "Man - if I were her granpa - I must be a stallion to still be able to reproduce!"

I will be 55 & he will be 62 when she graduates high school. DO I care - heck no!

Age is a state of mind, you truly are as old as you feel & my mind says I am still 29 dammit! HAHAHA!! =)

My point is that who are we to judge whether Clay is gay or not if he has not actually "come out" and said so? So many people assume that because someone is gentle, softspoken and well, a metrosexual male, that they are gay. Never in my mind would I even assume he is gay unless he tells it himself. As for Christian's being gay, well, that is between them and their God because all three Monotheistic religions cite spiritual doctrine/literature against homosexuality. But again, it's not my place to say someone is gay or not - that is up to the person in question. And, as far as Clay, he has not made that public so people should just allow him the respect of his privacy - whether he is or isn't is none of our business. Though to be honest, if he came out, he'd have much bigger record sales! ;)

You prove my point beautifully. Hugs to you and your wonderful daughter.

Gayle - I know a lot of gay Christians - and they are Christians who are strong and secure in their faith and beliefs. Religion has nothing at all to do with one's sexual orientation... no more than it has anything to do with one's eye color or skin color. So I'm not sure why releasing a Christian music CD would show that Clay is heterosexually oriented.

I would venture to guess that Clay has not "come out" because he (like millions of people around the world who are closeted) is afraid of being judged and vilified by members of a closed-minded and closed-hearted public.

Wow, I applaude your courage.

Well, I'm a single mom to my daughter who was born when I was 44...so I'll be doing kindergarten at 50 and high school graduation at 62 (yikes!) I'm not married and never have been, not for lack of trying, but I concentrated on my career for so long that when my biological clock went from tick-tock to a full-fledged brass band, the lack of someone in my life whom I felt would be a good husband and father was non-existant. I tried to have a child biologically through AI but after losing 6 babies it wasn't going to happen... so I turned to adoption. And you know what? The day they placed my 5 week old baby girl in my arms for the first time, in between my tears of joy, all I could think of was that line from the song "God Bless the Broken Road That Led Me Straight to You." I would not change one single thing that brought this child into my life... she's the perfect child for me, and probably more like me than any biological child could have been. She is my daughter through God's Perfect Timing :)

And no, I did not have my child through "traditional" means, but I'm not out to prove any points, either... it just didn't seem right that because there was no husband in my life I had to give up my dream of being a mother just because society said that's the way it should be done. There are times when I feel a bit wistful for what could "possibly" have been... but I'm so grateful for what I have that those times are fewer and far between. Sometimes life isn't so black and white and sometimes the curves you are thrown aren't what you expect... but at the end of the day.... when you have a child who was created or adopted by one or two adult parents, and that child will be loved, cherished, and brought up to be a good, loving, strong, individual... isn't that what's most important at the end of the day? I'd rather much more spend my time worrying about the abuse cases we read about in Linda's column and in our local news than the news that a gay man and his older best friend are having a child together. I doubt very seriously that CPS will EVER be called to check on the child Clay and James have created.

Okay, after reading everyone's comments, I want to know WHEN Clay Aiken came out of the closet? As far as I know he has never stated his sexual preference. As a matter of fact, the first album Clay released pre-AI was a Christian album and he has always discussed his faith openly whereas he has never publically discussed his sexuality. I am wondering when this became fact? Also, he has publically stated he is CELIBATE. Since when does celibate = gay?

Thanks, ChickyChick for expressing what I couldn't. I couldn't agree more.

At first this story skeeved me out, but the more I think about it, it's kinda sweet. He is gay (not that there's anything wrong with it, and let's not argue this point ladies, cuz he TOTALLY is, no matter how far back he tries to hide in that closet), and she is childless, and they are BFFs, financially capable, and they both really want a child. This makes sense, actually! More power to them both. I suspect the eggs are not hers, but a donor's.

What I really want to know though, is when David Cook's sperm will be up for grabs! WOOOO!

I'm in the minority here, too, as to Clay's decision. There are always going to be remarkable exceptions to the rule (good and bad), but I think a child's best chances in this society are with a married mom and dad. I'm also going to be tolerant of other peoples' choices, as I hope they'd be with mine to personally repopulate the earth. :-)

I love Clay's voice, but I think he should have kept his sperm to himself. Donating it to a 50 year old woman completely creeps me out.

Sorry for the double post. I got carried away.

One only has to read this blog a couple of times before hearing of yet another misuse, abuse or torture of a child by some heartless POS that should have never been allowed near a child. I would think that a child born from the love of two caring, compassionate and dedicated individules - regardless of how that child were conceived, or the sexual orientation of the parents - would be a fortunate child indeed.
Best of luck to them.

One only has to read this blog a couple of times before hearing of yet another misuse, abuse or torture of a child by some heartless POS that should have never been allowed near a child. I would think that a child born from the love of two caring, compassionate and dedicated individules - regardless of how that child were conceived, or the sexual orientation of the parents - would be a fortunate child indeed.
Best of luck to them.

Well, this is where I beat the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY drum.

I don't care if hundreds of people started jumping off cliffs, I am still capable of making my own decision to NOT jump off.

I cheer on anyone, or any two, who WANT a child. Being married offers no guarantee that a child will be parented better.

I don't see Clay Aiken offering his sperm to a close friend as a disservice to a child, or by some extension, to children everywhere.

Children everywhere are dismissed, marginalized, unwanted, abused, and unloved in two parent homes every day.

Again, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Blaming anyone else for your own choices and how they pan out, is just weak and wrong.

I understand where you are coming from Linda, but I don't think you are looking at the whole picture and how is effects society. Yes, these people have the money and support to raise a child even if it won't have two parents in the house.

The problem is that too many people ill equipt to do the same try to emulate them. The rate of out of wedlock births in this country is staggering (if I remember right it's something like 60% for blacks 50% for hispanics and 30% for whiltes....give or take...don't have time to look it up right now).
This has caused great problems in our society and this cavalier attitude that as long as a child is loved is part of the problem. Our culture is at a breaking point.

If it were only a few movie stars and older women doing this, it would be different. And for the record, I have no problem with gay couple adopting (I also think they should have a legal partnership to do this)It has become some kind of chic feminist thing to have a child out of wedlock. As a champion of the child, I would think you would see what a disservice it is to children.

Unfortunatley the one parent or broken home is now common place. Instead of cheering it on, we must expect more of each other before our whole society crumbles.

Hmmm... I was just telling someone that at 44 I feel it is too late for me, that I really don't want to be doing kindergarten at 50. But to each their own. Hopefully it will be a healthy baby... the risks at that age...

I think Clay would be a good dad. He was a teacher if I recall so likes kids. And he has a nice, happy way about him. The child will lack for nothing.

Hurray for Clay! Congrats to both! I hope the baby is born healthy & mom has an easy pregnancy. That will be one loved child & that exactly what our sad world needs - more love!

(P.S Linda - I didnt go to the AI Season two concert - but I have the CD of love songs from that season & they all sing "What the world needs now is love sweet love" - and aint that the truth!!

I guess I'm in the minority here...I believe that people should be married before having children. They don't even live together. And the fact that this woman is 50 years old, to me, is selfish.

Congratulations to the both of them. I am in complete agreement with you Linda, I'm sure they will make terrific parents...I wonder if they would consider adoption (I'm available!)

I personally didn't bat an eye at this "revelation". It was more like "good for them"! It's not like the child will not have all the advantages that loving parents can give, nor will it have to worry about where its next meal will come from. However it happened makes me no difference whatsoever--that really is none of our business. All that matters is that the baby is happy and well-cared for!

IMHO, there are millions of gay couples who would make MUCH better parents than a lot of the hetero couples I know. Sexual orientation has absolutely no effect on one's ability to lovingly and successfully parent a child.

Now if we could just fix the marriage laws in this bass-ackwards country of ours so that everyone is treated equally... well, I'll be on the way to patriotic satisfaction. Oh, and throw the Bushies out of the Big House, too. Is it too late to impeach????? DGMS.....

"it doesn't matter if it is by a single mother, lone father, set of grandparents, a happily married hetero couple, completely commited homosexual couple, an unmarried love match, two friends, or a partridge in a pear tree."
What a class act your are Linda. If only we could get everyone to be so loving and accepting this world would be so much easier to live in. Your compassion inspires me!

I really hope this isn't true. As a Claymate, I'm having a very difficult time believing Clay would do this, but then, I don't know the man.

I totally agree with you on this Linda!!! I also agree that he was robbed season 2. His voice is truly amazing. We saw him on Jay Leno last night and my husband said he looked like Barry Manilow. I said,"Whats wrong with that?" Obviously I was also a huge Barry Manilow fan so if Clay wants to carry that torch I'm totally cool with that. I'm sure you have his Christmas CD. Absolutely love "Mary Did You Know...."

im happy for both of them...and if it were me...i would be shouting it from the roof tops...clay will make a terrific father...go talk amongst your selves...im gettin all vheclempt...g.

Good for them!!! Congrats Clay!!

Yeah...and I'll be seeing him perform in DC on Sunday! A friend invited me to go to the Presidential Gala (where one ticket usually goes for $7500, i'm going for free!)! Anyway, I'm sure the paparazzi will be there! If they are, I'll try to get in a DGMS shout out... :)

Hmmm ... I hadn't seen this story yet, so thanks Linda. I think if I were in that position I would not make these types of announcements public -- imagine trying to explain all of this to the poor kid someday. But to each his own!

From what I've read, Clay and Jaymes have been best friends for years and plan to raise the baby together, so the child *will* have two very involved and loving parents. Personally, I think it's wonderful and I'm happy for both of them. Clay spent much of his pre-Idol time involved with kids, so I'm sure he'll be a fantastic Daddy! And... ohhhhhh... the lullabies that kid will be treated to. I'm jealous.

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